El blog d'En Joan Quetgles

Rorty, Vattimo y las Iglesias protestantes

quetgles | 22 Agost, 2008 12:07

De moment, sols hi ha l'original en català i la versió en anglés. Ací teniu la versió en llengua anglesa.

ÿÿThis is a version in English from the original in Catalan. Please, you should forgive the deficiencies of the translation. Arguments to make see that the concept of God will stop having functionality.

Clarification: Many of progressive intellectuals and the political formations of left consider that in the name of the freedom of consciousness has to be respectful with the believers, and they consider that "the religious question" has already been overcome, that now it "does not correspond" to enter in conflicts with the Church (the Catholic Church, in our area). The strategy of the political parties of left is to attract itself the vote of the believers and it avoids what could injure the feelings of the believers.
My repeated thesis is that the Churches are some great powers and they are always in war against the ideas and the considerate policies like a threat for their interests. The political parties of left can declare - of daydream - that they are in sleep of peace, which they do not want to make to the Church critical, but not because of that the Churches halt their ideological rearmament (Ideological rearmament in material sense: creation of Editorials, of mediàtics means, of Universities, of Foundations, of Ong, etc)
The militaristic policy so aggressive and so genocidal of George Bush is only possible with the support of the North American Christian Churches. In Marx he said that the criticism of the Sky had to be substituted for the criticism of the Earth. He explained that the religious alienation was a consequence of the social and economical one. Without entering to argue this theory, the one that is undoubted is that the Churches are a very powerful social and political instrument of |domain, and the Churches are not in the Sky; they fight on the Earth.

Thesis: As long as the Churches are these great Powers - economical, political, ideological -, to declare the "ideological peace nun" is an error and a pure illusion; a mirage that does not bring but in one senior oppression.

   Rorty, like in neopragmatist, and Vattimo, as a postmodernist, two tips of lance are in the service of the Christian churches with the goal to re-introduce the religious literature - theological works and mystical works - in the area of the philosophy; or it is, the last intention is to produce a "philosophical literature" in favor of the existence of God and of Jesucrist. In futile Vattimo and, as if he went out of the wardrobe, with the book "To believe that one believes", he throws to making theological comments about the texts of the New Will. This would be the new philosophy of the "feeble thought". And, Rorty, is already exalted at the Catholic Universities. The idea that the science is also a game of language of the humans, how the philosophy and the poetry are it, thrills them.

   Against the crusade of the Christians, I have to say that for a post-postmodern mind the idea about God does not stand, and, besides, she is useless.
Here are some arguments in this sense declared.

   Kant he confessed that it "came out of the dogmatic dream" with the reading of "The research about the human common sense", of Hume. But Kant, that Lutheran was a pietist , once it demonstrated that the existence of God can not be proved, he hurried to postulating the existence of God.
The Positivism is the hegemonic philosophical current in the world. And the Positivism picks up the thesis of Hume that the metaphysics is not possible as a science. The arguments of Hume are clearings and until now have not been overcome.

   With Hume, once the metaphysics had been discarded, the thing came off like this: We can not know of God because there is not any phenomenon that gives us reference; or it is, we can not have any experience of God. In the case of the mystical experiences, these have to be understood as a delivery formant of the prodigies and of the miracles.
   With respect to the miracles, En Hume makes to see that the stories that make reference to the miracles do not fulfill under any circumstances the rigor that requires to a theory or to an affirmation of a determinate phenomenon the science to give validity of weary nature. He understand Hume that if one he affirms that there has been an extraordinary phenomenon that denies the laws of the physics, then the affirmation has to bring an evidence more rigorous than those that the science sues with respect to an ordinary experiment.

   Neither Rorty, Even Vattimo, nor the Christian churches have sufficient power to invalidate the approach of Hume.
The Christian churches continue affirming that the prodigies and miracles that are reported to the Bible have to be understood as facts real and with guarantee really.
   Hume he said that the theologians in no way gave guarantees. For my part, I have to say that the main argument that the existence of God denies consists, precisely, in the nature strongly spurious of these texts that are considerate inspired by God.
Of entry, I leave out of the subject to the theists, to those theoreticians who in the way of Voltaire made criticism to the knowledgeable religion as a superstition, but, next, in a way one little superficial, they introduced the concept of the Supreme Being. And already not have we talk of that gray man, Auguste Comte, who got excited with the idea about creating him a Religion of the Humanity with a lay hagiography where he himself it is there. If the God of the religions is a character opposed to the reason, the God of the theists does not go beyond to be an intellectual vase. If the metaphysics is not possible as a science and if the religions are considered superstition, no way remains to attempt to make a reference of God. The word God, simply, would stop having use.

The stories of prodigies and of miracles of the Bible, mostly, are impossible stories (you can see some analyses of the Gospels on my web page The Gospels, impossible histories).

   If it is demonstrated that many of the stories of the New Will are impossible stories, then it should be concluded that the idea about God should stop having sense for those that they based theirs beliefs in the kindness of these books.
But we can ascertain that the Christian believers do not want to check out the veracity of their saintly books.

   Thesis: the believers do not want to make, in no way, positivist, a critical revision of their saintly books. What matters to them - and for which they are disposed in everything - it is not the truth of their books, but the moral rules that their religion proclaims.

   Against the frivolous assumption of Rorty and of the evangelic Church (Also the Spanish bishops speak about "lay totalitarianism"), the atheism is not "a certain deafness with respect to the religion", nor an alternative belief. The atheism is not a religion; it does not constitute any church; it does not have any type of liturgy.

    Rorty he picks up the pragmatic tradition North American - hegemonic in the US -, according to which it does not have to struggle about the truth of a determinate religion, but to check out it are the social benefits that which she brings. In the North American tradition there is not conflict between the philosophy - the pragmatism - and the religion, they suggest.

   From the "Lutheran revolution" I established itself the beginning of the "freedom of consciousness of the Christian". Since then, the freedom of speech has been sustained, in effect, in the countries where the protestantism predominates. In the area of English speech, from Locke, the senior part of authors they have insisted on to affirm the ideas about freedom and about tolerance. But, at the same time, in defence of the freedom and tolerance religious, in practice, this tolerance has given a kind of harmony or "civil peace" among the authors of the dominant philosophical currents and the protestant churches as a result.
The thought of Rorty does not make but to reaffirm the tradition of the North American pragmatism in the sense of avoiding the conflict between the philosophy and the religion.
Rorty has added up his arguments in a brief book that graduate "The future of the religion" published with Vattimo. There he wrote: I "coincide with Hume and with Kant that the concept of 'empirical test' is irrelevant when speaking about God, but this point is useful for in the same way against the atheism and the theism. The president Bush has brought a good argument when he|she|it said, in a speech destined to pleasing the Christian fundamentalists, that 'the atheism is a faith', since it 'can not confirm not even to refute through arguments or evidence|tests'. But the same one can apply, undoubtedly, to the theism. Not even the ones that affirm even the ones that deny the existence of God can claim, in a plausible way, to have tests of their part. Religious being in the modern Occident does not have very much that to see with the explanation of phenomena specifically observable", he argued Rorty.
Almost all keep on repeating that has to be respectful with the religious beliefs of the persons, but not even bring up the question of the Power of the protestant churches - The Anglican, the evangelical, as examples - not even the of intervention of this Power in the ideological and political war.

   Thesis: The protestant churches are organizations of Power. They have, therefore, a leading elite who decides the political line to be in every moment (For example, in 1936, they decided to give the Spanish Republic the back; and they did not denounce the military time nor the fascism).

   Thesis: The protestant churches, while they proclaim their decided support to the democratic principles, create everything of hidden devices while attempting to leave out or to destroy those authors or social groups that make critical to|in their ideology.

Thesis: The protestant churches - in a way similar to that of the Catholic Church - have made several crusades against the theories of Darwin. Crusades, in the sense of war and destruction against the evolutionist theories, in the meaning of making cost their political power for attempting to forbid the broadcast of the Darwinian ideas.

   At the fifties of the last century, the evangelist Church achieved "democratically", that the education of the Darwinism was forbidden to the schools in some States of the South of the US.
At present, the anti-Darwinian campaign of the Churches has achieved that, at some schools, by law, it is compulsory to explain the theory of the "intelligent design", beside the evolutionist theory.

   Thesis: The protestant Churches and the Catholic Church are a threat for the science and for the philosophy. All they attempt to subject them to its|his|her|their ideological interests.

   The threat is so present to such an extent that the extent that the Royal Society made a declaration public (2006) in support of the evolutionism and rejecting the pretensions of the creacionisme and of the "intelligent design". You can see the declaration on the web page Royal Society Evolution, creacionism and intelligent design.

  Thesis: The protestant Churches and the Catholic Church are a threat for the freedom and the progress. They are always the instruments of the elites of the conservative Power.

For the tandem Rorty-Vattimo (It seems that the Catholic Universities are thrilled with this tandem), there would be a diversity of language games of the humans, used as it|he|she is the goal to achieve. Thus, beside the scientific literature (the Science has already lost, according to them, the golden one of the "truth"), and had the religious literature (that she would have other "truths") that satisfies the "spiritual needs".

It is necessary to leave apart of this way reactionary, and to follow the way pioneered by David Hume. Of what is treated him of advancing in the empiricist line.

Thesis: Once the resistance of the churches has been won, the inconsistency of the stories of prodigies and of miracles of the denominated "holy books" will be clear.

Thesis: If all human creations that make reference to God are inconsistent, and if the history|story of the churches him a downpour of crimes against the humanity, and if the science does not make the most minimum reference to "paranormal" phenomena, the word God would not have room in a post-postmodern human language.

Thesis: The inconsistency of the "holy books" and the crimes of the churches demonstrate that the existence of God is not possible. The existence of a mute God is not conceivable that anything does not say in front of those that books in name of his and of those that they commit invent crimes in name of his.

Thesis: The silence of God can only have a meaning. The philosophies which they attempt to justify the unjustifiable one are not but new servants of the dogmatic theology. ÿÿThis is a version in English from the original in Catalan. Please, you should forgive the deficiencies of the translation.

Arguments to make see that the concept of God will stop having functionality.

Clarification: Many of progressive intellectuals and the political formations of left consider that in the name of the freedom of consciousness has to be respectful with the believers, and they consider that "the religious question" has already been overcome, that now it "does not correspond" to enter in conflicts with the Church (the Catholic Church, in our area). The strategy of the political parties of left is to attract itself the vote of the believers and it avoids what could injure the feelings of the believers.
My repeated thesis is that the Churches are some great powers and they are always in war against the ideas and the considerate policies like a threat for their interests. The political parties of left can declare - of daydream - that they are in sleep of peace, which they do not want to make to the Church critical, but not because of that the Churches halt their ideological rearmament (Ideological rearmament in material sense: creation of Editorials, of mediàtics means, of Universities, of Foundations, of Ong, etc)
The militaristic policy so aggressive and so genocidal of George Bush is only possible with the support of the North American Christian Churches. In Marx he said that the criticism of the Sky had to be substituted for the criticism of the Earth. He explained that the religious alienation was a consequence of the social and economical one. Without entering to argue this theory, the one that is undoubted is that the Churches are a very powerful social and political instrument of |domain, and the Churches are not in the Sky; they fight on the Earth.

Thesis: As long as the Churches are these great Powers - economical, political, ideological -, to declare the "ideological peace nun" is an error and a pure illusion; a mirage that does not bring but in one senior oppression.

   Rorty, like in neopragmatist, and Vattimo, as a postmodernist, two tips of lance are in the service of the Christian churches with the goal to re-introduce the religious literature - theological works and mystical works - in the area of the philosophy; or it is, the last intention is to produce a "philosophical literature" in favor of the existence of God and of Jesucrist. In futile Vattimo and, as if he went out of the wardrobe, with the book "To believe that one believes", he throws to making theological comments about the texts of the New Will. This would be the new philosophy of the "feeble thought". And, Rorty, is already exalted at the Catholic Universities. The idea that the science is also a game of language of the humans, how the philosophy and the poetry are it, thrills them.

   Against the crusade of the Christians, I have to say that for a post-postmodern mind the idea about God does not stand, and, besides, she is useless.
Here are some arguments in this sense declared.

   Kant he confessed that it "came out of the dogmatic dream" with the reading of "The research about the human common sense", of Hume. But Kant, that Lutheran was a pietist , once it demonstrated that the existence of God can not be proved, he hurried to postulating the existence of God.
The Positivism is the hegemonic philosophical current in the world. And the Positivism picks up the thesis of Hume that the metaphysics is not possible as a science. The arguments of Hume are clearings and until now have not been overcome.

   With Hume, once the metaphysics had been discarded, the thing came off like this: We can not know of God because there is not any phenomenon that gives us reference; or it is, we can not have any experience of God. In the case of the mystical experiences, these have to be understood as a delivery formant of the prodigies and of the miracles.
   With respect to the miracles, En Hume makes to see that the stories that make reference to the miracles do not fulfill under any circumstances the rigor that requires to a theory or to an affirmation of a determinate phenomenon the science to give validity of weary nature. He understand Hume that if one he affirms that there has been an extraordinary phenomenon that denies the laws of the physics, then the affirmation has to bring an evidence more rigorous than those that the science sues with respect to an ordinary experiment.

   Neither Rorty, Even Vattimo, nor the Christian churches have sufficient power to invalidate the approach of Hume.
The Christian churches continue affirming that the prodigies and miracles that are reported to the Bible have to be understood as facts real and with guarantee really.
   Hume he said that the theologians in no way gave guarantees. For my part, I have to say that the main argument that the existence of God denies consists, precisely, in the nature strongly spurious of these texts that are considerate inspired by God.
Of entry, I leave out of the subject to the theists, to those theoreticians who in the way of Voltaire made criticism to the knowledgeable religion as a superstition, but, next, in a way one little superficial, they introduced the concept of the Supreme Being. And already not have we talk of that gray man, Auguste Comte, who got excited with the idea about creating him a Religion of the Humanity with a lay hagiography where he himself it is there. If the God of the religions is a character opposed to the reason, the God of the theists does not go beyond to be an intellectual vase. If the metaphysics is not possible as a science and if the religions are considered superstition, no way remains to attempt to make a reference of God. The word God, simply, would stop having use.

The stories of prodigies and of miracles of the Bible, mostly, are impossible stories (you can see some analyses of the Gospels on my web page The Gospels, impossible histories).

   If it is demonstrated that many of the stories of the New Will are impossible stories, then it should be concluded that the idea about God should stop having sense for those that they based theirs beliefs in the kindness of these books.
But we can ascertain that the Christian believers do not want to check out the veracity of their saintly books.

   Thesis: the believers do not want to make, in no way, positivist, a critical revision of their saintly books. What matters to them - and for which they are disposed in everything - it is not the truth of their books, but the moral rules that their religion proclaims.

   Against the frivolous assumption of Rorty and of the evangelic Church (Also the Spanish bishops speak about "lay totalitarianism"), the atheism is not "a certain deafness with respect to the religion", nor an alternative belief. The atheism is not a religion; it does not constitute any church; it does not have any type of liturgy.

    Rorty he picks up the pragmatic tradition North American - hegemonic in the US -, according to which it does not have to struggle about the truth of a determinate religion, but to check out it are the social benefits that which she brings. In the North American tradition there is not conflict between the philosophy - the pragmatism - and the religion, they suggest.

   From the "Lutheran revolution" I established itself the beginning of the "freedom of consciousness of the Christian". Since then, the freedom of speech has been sustained, in effect, in the countries where the protestantism predominates. In the area of English speech, from Locke, the senior part of authors they have insisted on to affirm the ideas about freedom and about tolerance. But, at the same time, in defence of the freedom and tolerance religious, in practice, this tolerance has given a kind of harmony or "civil peace" among the authors of the dominant philosophical currents and the protestant churches as a result.
The thought of Rorty does not make but to reaffirm the tradition of the North American pragmatism in the sense of avoiding the conflict between the philosophy and the religion.
Rorty has added up his arguments in a brief book that graduate "The future of the religion" published with Vattimo. There he wrote: I "coincide with Hume and with Kant that the concept of 'empirical test' is irrelevant when speaking about God, but this point is useful for in the same way against the atheism and the theism. The president Bush has brought a good argument when he|she|it said, in a speech destined to pleasing the Christian fundamentalists, that 'the atheism is a faith', since it 'can not confirm not even to refute through arguments or evidence|tests'. But the same one can apply, undoubtedly, to the theism. Not even the ones that affirm even the ones that deny the existence of God can claim, in a plausible way, to have tests of their part. Religious being in the modern Occident does not have very much that to see with the explanation of phenomena specifically observable", he argued Rorty.
Almost all keep on repeating that has to be respectful with the religious beliefs of the persons, but not even bring up the question of the Power of the protestant churches - The Anglican, the evangelical, as examples - not even the of intervention of this Power in the ideological and political war.

   Thesis: The protestant churches are organizations of Power. They have, therefore, a leading elite who decides the political line to be in every moment (For example, in 1936, they decided to give the Spanish Republic the back; and they did not denounce the military time nor the fascism).

   Thesis: The protestant churches, while they proclaim their decided support to the democratic principles, create everything of hidden devices while attempting to leave out or to destroy those authors or social groups that make critical to|in their ideology.

Thesis: The protestant churches - in a way similar to that of the Catholic Church - have made several crusades against the theories of Darwin. Crusades, in the sense of war and destruction against the evolutionist theories, in the meaning of making cost their political power for attempting to forbid the broadcast of the Darwinian ideas.

   At the fifties of the last century, the evangelist Church achieved "democratically", that the education of the Darwinism was forbidden to the schools in some States of the South of the US.
At present, the anti-Darwinian campaign of the Churches has achieved that, at some schools, by law, it is compulsory to explain the theory of the "intelligent design", beside the evolutionist theory.

   Thesis: The protestant Churches and the Catholic Church are a threat for the science and for the philosophy. All they attempt to subject them to its|his|her|their ideological interests.

   The threat is so present to such an extent that the extent that the Royal Society made a declaration public (2006) in support of the evolutionism and rejecting the pretensions of the creacionisme and of the "intelligent design". You can see the declaration on the web page Royal Society Evolution, creacionism and intelligent design.

  Thesis: The protestant Churches and the Catholic Church are a threat for the freedom and the progress. They are always the instruments of the elites of the conservative Power.

For the tandem Rorty-Vattimo (It seems that the Catholic Universities are thrilled with this tandem), there would be a diversity of language games of the humans, used as it|he|she is the goal to achieve. Thus, beside the scientific literature (the Science has already lost, according to them, the golden one of the "truth"), and had the religious literature (that she would have other "truths") that satisfies the "spiritual needs".

It is necessary to leave apart of this way reactionary, and to follow the way pioneered by David Hume. Of what is treated him of advancing in the empiricist line.

Thesis: Once the resistance of the churches has been won, the inconsistency of the stories of prodigies and of miracles of the denominated "holy books" will be clear.

Thesis: If all human creations that make reference to God are inconsistent, and if the history|story of the churches him a downpour of crimes against the humanity, and if the science does not make the most minimum reference to "paranormal" phenomena, the word God would not have room in a post-postmodern human language.

Thesis: The inconsistency of the "holy books" and the crimes of the churches demonstrate that the existence of God is not possible. The existence of a mute God is not conceivable that anything does not say in front of those that books in name of his and of those that they commit invent crimes in name of his.

Thesis: The silence of God can only have a meaning. The philosophies which they attempt to justify the unjustifiable one are not but new servants of the dogmatic theology.